. chicago was the place to be at that point as i right in the book. three people arrived in chicago, michael jordan came during that period, and barack obama came anonymously and arguably today. >> host: jerry gelman, a chicago community organizer, said obama was one of the most cautious people i have ever met in my life. he was not unwilling to take risks but was a strange combination of someone who would have to weigh everything to death and then take a dramatic risk at the end. >> guest: that sounds like president obama too. in some ways that characteristic can be looked at in his life and career. as a community organizer, the whole notion, the method for community organizing was to take action, our does not exist in a vacuum. youpower does not exist in a vacuum. you have to seize it. cameron was one of his bosses during that period, barack was a different story. he was looking for ways to not confront but achieved in other ways. that can be frustrating at times but help him get where he wanted to go. >> host: when he was there as a community organizer what was the president's life like?